In this article
During the height of Summer 2024, George Spender and I connected at a gig in Bristol. We bonded over our similar journeys working in the arts; both having previously worked as creatives and now digital marketers. George is the producer of the hugely successful YouTube channel @MarySpender which has amassed 746k subscribers and 94 million views to date. I was keen to understand more about his process and what he has learned along the way.
In this article you will learn:
Here is what we talked about…
George, tell me a little bit about how you got into digital marketing?
My background was mostly in book publishing for over ten years – I worked for a Drama specialist independent publisher, Oberon Books, from 2011 to 2020 when it was acquired by Bloomsbury. I did some freelance work with Faber and Faber, and Bloomsbury, then moved into arts marketing, joining the team at Edinburgh International Festival as their Publications Editor. I then moved to Bristol Old Vic Theatre School, first doing their publications, before the pandemic meant a pivot to more digital marketing.
I began working with my sister, Mary Spender, a singer-songwriter and guitar-focused content creator, around 2022, helping produce the channel, script and research new content, with community management and other ad-hoc press, marketing, logistics and whatever duties need doing to give her more time to create.
Why do you think Mary has stood out on the platform with so many other musicians and creators out there?
Her channel has connected with her audience because she has never professed to be an expert – she’ll fully admit she’s not the best guitarist, she’s not had a big hit song, or a thirty-year career to speak from a position of authority – but she takes you on the journey of discovery with her.
What are some of the main pain points you’ve encountered working in YouTube?
It’s been a learning process, especially coming from a Books background. The algorithm rewards regular uploads over quality work – you can have the most perfect piece of work, but if you’re not uploading regularly, it’s not going to get promoted. We’ve tried putting out three or more videos a week but it’s not always sustainable.
Going to daily uploading led to an incredible period of growth for her channel, but it’s impossible to keep up that momentum and still make good work that you’re proud of.
Burnout seems to be the main issue for a lot of full-time creators, so Mary’s assembling of a small, trustworthy team who all contribute and help lighten the load means that’s not really the issue – we have plenty of ideas, but there’s only one Mary, and only so many hours in the day, so it’s more about how we support her and make the production process as flawless as we can.
How far in advance are you planning content?
We’re filming all the time, some longer-form documentary videos have been in the pipeline for a year, others can be written and filmed same day, edited the day after, and out that evening. It really depends. We try to make content that will continue to remain relevant in the future, rather than moving into ‘reaction’ content, but sometimes it’s useful to address a big current topic, because a lot of people are searching for it.
How do you approach community management? E.g., responding to comments, both good and bad.
Yes, this is an ongoing struggle – we get several hundred comments per video, and a popular video will get six to ten thousand. It’s impossible to send individual responses, especially for quite in-depth questions, but we read everything and have been liking and responding to comments consistently for the past few years. They are mostly positive, but you can’t please everyone, nor should you try. We obviously take constructive negative comments on board – people really do not like what they consider to be clickbait titles for instance – but others are just negative for the sake of it. The beauty of YouTube is if you don’t like, you don’t have to watch. And you can set filters for the ruder words so they don’t ruin your day.
Has the type of content you create changed over time (and if so, how)?
We’re trying new things all the time. Mary’s done gear reviews, songwriting tips, guitar lessons, played her original music, covers, addressed music industry topics. Me coming on board allowed a greater depth of research – reading published books, watching documentaries, really reading around a topic and helping to distil it into a watchable ten-to-fifteen-minute video. Video essays can be very popular on the platform, and have grown the channel a lot, but you don’t just want to be regurgitating Wikipedia on a weekly basis, the audience deserves something deeper than that.
What is your approach with YouTube Shorts and is there a specific kind of content strategy you use on them?
It’s been an adjustment. I can’t say I’m a fan whatsoever of the boom in short form, but there’s no getting around the fact that it can really grow a channel, so you have to try them. We’ve tried short music theory, short guitar history segments, but the thing that’s worked well is short, tightly edited comedic content – Mary’s take on what happened to her after watching an Adele concert just got over one million views on Instagram.
Initially do you focus on perfection or just getting videos out there?
Get them out there. The truth is for the first hundred, two hundred, five hundred, very few people will be watching. So just build a body of work – make work you’re proud of and don’t just dash things off, but consistency in your output is key. Be prepared for the algorithm to kick you in the face. If you hang on until you consider something perfect and then it underperforms, you’ll feel disappointed and struggle to keep going. Mary’s most popular video – five million views and counting – was made in one morning.
Back in the early days when the audience was small how did you get started with growing your YouTube audience?
Collaborations. Finding other channels just starting out, and collaborating, getting that audience crossover. That’s the beauty of being a musician channel, you can play with other musicians. Aim for people of your level, with the occasional bit of star power – one metal cover of Sultans of Swing Mary filmed with Frog Leap Studios for his channel has had over 44 million views and is name-checked all the time as the reason people follow her own channel.
Have you used paid advertising to grow the reach or has growth come from organic activity?
Everything is organic. Do not be tempted to buy subscribers or use artificial means of growing your channel or views, YouTube is very hot on picking this up and will issue warnings or strikes. We have used some paid social advertising for promoting specific events – a live show in a city for instance – but we have never used paid promotion as a strategy for growing subscribers to the channel.
Do you fear that one day you might lose your audience?
It’s inevitable that careers decline, people move on, focus on new interests, or stop watching for a number of other reasons – too many sponsored posts or ‘going through the motions’ content. There’s also the fear that a wrong take on a divisive issue might seriously damage the numbers. But the skills in making these videos are very transferable, once you know how to do it you can help others do so, or start again with a new channel and hit the ground running. Mary’s been very influenced by Kevin Kelly’s rule of one thousand true fans – all you need is a core audience of one thousand people who support your work and will spend £100 a year on it, and you’ve got an amazing living.
How often do you evaluate performance and what is your typical process?
Every day. YouTube analytics are very good and show you audience drop off, key retention moments, geographic trends, audience demographics. It all gets looked at every morning. I’m not a statistician, but if you can see a clear moment where people started to lose interest, you know you’re doing something wrong. Even adding in wording like – “stick around to the end to find out” or “please remember to subscribe” can have a big effect.
Did you use trends to grow, or do you stick with your own original content?
A mix. Reaction channels tend to get stuck in that lane, and we want the focus of the channel to be enjoying the creative works of Mary Spender, rather than just jumping on a topic because it’s popular. But if an issue is relevant and we think we have something to add to it, then we’ll try and cover it.
What advice would you give an organisation or individual artist who have never created a YouTube channel before?
What can you show audiences behind the scenes, how can you take them on a journey with you, and how can you showcase the personalities that make up an organisation. There are no quick wins, it can be a slog, and fall by the wayside when you have a million other things to do, but if you build up a successful channel, you have a direct connection with your audience, and you’re not reliant on third party sources like TV, Radio and Newspapers to promote your show, exhibition, whatever. That’s so valuable as traditional media declines and review slots shrink. Put in the effort, and it will pay off.
What small thing makes the biggest difference to a well set up YouTube channel?
Buy a good microphone, get a good audio setup, and learn how to process it all properly. Tinny audio that sounds like it’s being recorded in a cave will put a great deal of viewers off in the first few seconds.
If you would like help choosing the right audio and video tools for you, book a one-to-one with our Tech Champion for Digital Content Creation, Dean Shaw. You can also find a few of his latest resources listed below.
If you’re interested in learning more from George and Mary, check out this short course, ‘How I Built My YouTube Channel’, adapted from a lecture Mary gave for Harvard Business School – https://maryspender.teachable.com/p/youtube
Mary Spender Ltd offers arts organisations and individuals one-on-one online workshops that share her fifteen years of technical knowledge making YouTube videos – great editing, audio, and filmmaking – as well as feedback on your content. Contact [email protected] for more information.
The Digital Culture Network is here to support you and your organisation. Our Tech Champions can provide free one-to-one support to all creative and cultural organisations who are in receipt of, or eligible for, Arts Council England funding. If you need help or would like to chat with us about any of the advice we have covered above, please get in touch. Sign up for our newsletter below and follow us on X (Twitter) @ace_dcn for the latest updates.
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